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The Dreaded Jumping Number "3"

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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Dreaded Jumping Number "3"
    Posted: 06/Jun/2009 at 6:21am

Marty or Russ,

I am still having problems when it comes to saying "3" in the mouse grid, mostly, not always, it jumps off that that particular number and I keep having to say "undo" then repeat the number again and then it will jump off again and so on and so forth so I try to avoid the number "3" like the plague!

Is there any way I could use a simple text macro so that when I am using the mouse grid, I could say another word (Say for instance "trio") instead of the number itself to trigger the appropriate action?

andy t
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Post Options Post Options   Quote russ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/Jun/2009 at 1:58pm

Andy T,

Can you be a bit more specific? Exactly what happens? Does it pick a different mouse grid number when you say "three?" If so, which number?
 
-Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/Jun/2009 at 5:08pm

Russ,

I think (not certain) that when I am using the mouse grid, the speech recognition is recognising when I say the number “3” as the number “5”.

So as you say each number from that of the mouse grid you want, if the actual point you want lands on a “3”, when you say that number, the mouse grid will not obey that number and it seems to pick the number “5” spot.  So then you have to say “undo” so that the mouse grid goes back to the status quo then you say it again and it does not work again and this can go on for ages!

I hope I have explained it better here.

What I was hoping could be done Russ, was to make a simple text macro to substitute the number “3”?

Four instance, say I was in the middle of using the mouse grid, then one part of it landed on a point I wanted to direct to and this part of the mouse grid had the number “3” on it, instead of me saying “3”, I could make a simple text macro to work with the mouse grid to say something like “trio” to make a clear distinction between that and “3”.

Then when I said “trio”, it would recognise this part of the mouse grid as being “3”?

Does that make any sense at all?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote russ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/Jun/2009 at 7:36pm

Andy T,

When the mouse grid is displayed on the screen, it is highly unlikely that Windows Speech Recognition is misinterpreting "three" as "five." That's because the words that WSR is expecting to hear is very limited: just one, two, three, ...up to nine, and a few other words.

The fact that this is happening on the number five is interesting because when the mouse grid is up and you say "click," the mouse always clicks in the very center of the "five" grid, wherever that is. This leads me to wonder if you are slowly saying "click ... three" instead of just "three." If this is the case, WSR might be reacting to the word "click."

Another possibility would be to try adding the number "3" to the speech dictionary and recording a pronunciation for it. This will help teach WSR exactly how you pronounce the number 3.

Your idea of using a macro to work around this is a good idea. This is a trick you can use when you run into problems in certain applications. But unfortunately, I don't think there is a way to write a macro that will execute while the mouse grid is displayed.

-Russ

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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/Jun/2009 at 1:59pm

Russ,

[QUOTE]When the mouse grid is displayed on the screen, it is highly unlikely that Windows Speech Recognition is misinterpreting "three" as "five." That's because the words that WSR is expecting to hear is very limited: just one, two, three, ...up to nine, and a few other words.[QUOTE/]

That is what appears to be happening, my speech recognition is not recognizing the number “3”.     

[QUOTE]The fact that this is happening on the number five is interesting because when the mouse grid you say "click," the mouse always clicks in the very center of the "five" grid, wherever that is. This leads me to wonder if you are slowly saying "click ... three" instead of just "three." If this is the case, WSR might be reacting to the word "click."[QUOTE/]

No, you misunderstand, I never say “click” at all until I get it to the exact right spot I want, say it, if and the arrow clicks that spot.  So I may say for example “4”, “5”, “2”, “8”, “8” “click”, I always say “click” at the end, I never say “click 3” or click “5” because as soon as you say the word “click”, that triggers the arrow or cursor to go straight to the point you are on at the time. 

[QUOTE]Another possibility would be to try adding the number "3" to the speech dictionary and recording a pronunciation for it. This will help teach WSR exactly how you pronounce the number 3.[QUOTE/]

I have already tried that, when I do go in to the speech dictionary and put in the number “3”, it tells me that “3” is already in the speech dictionary and therefore I cannot make a another pronunciation of it.  

[QUOTE]Your idea of using a macro to work around this is a good idea. This is a trick you can use when you run into problems in certain applications. But unfortunately, I don't think there is a way to write a macro that will execute while the mouse grid is displayed.[QUOTE/]

If a problem such as this cannot work with the mouse grid, then perhaps Windows Speech Recognition should consider this problem for future reference.

I have another problem for you to help me with.  I have posted the same question in the “macro and macro development” section of this website but I have had no response as of yet to this question from that section so I thought I would try my luck in here: -

When I am in Microsoft Newsgroups, there are lots of threads and next to each thread there is a little white arrow and at the moment, the only way I can expand the thread to show all the messages within that thread, is to use the mouse grid.

I have tried to make a command macro to automatically expand the thread but it did not work. I looked up the functions on a keyboard to see what they do and left arrow and right arrow are shortcuts to expand and collapse threads, but there is no functions of these kind in the “Simulate Key Press” “Command Keys” within the command macros section in the WSR tool kit.

So then I tried another function, which when I looked up in “Windows Explorer Keyboard Shortcuts”, virtually does the same thing.  It is telling me that “NUM LOCK + ASTERISK (*) on” is a shortcut for “Display all subfolders under the selected folder”.  So when I was within the command macros section within the WSR tool kit, in the “When I Say” box I selected “Display” – in the “Simulate Key Press” “Command Keys” section, I chose “NUM LOCK +”.      Then in the “Numbers Letters an asterisk sign like so  *.

Then I went into Microsoft Newsgroups and tried it with a thread which was highlighted. I then said “display” in the hope that the macro would work and expand the thread but it did not.

Can anyone tell me where I have gone wrong?   Am I using the right command for this kind of keyboard shortcut?

Cheers

 

andy t

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote russ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/Jun/2009 at 2:41pm

Andy T,

Thanks for the additional explanation. Since you have already added "3" to the dictionary, I would suggest you try deleting this word from the dictionary and see if that helps.

If that still doesn't work, try adding back "3" to the dictionary, and re-record the pronunciation.

(Note that you can use the "Change Existing Words" option in the speech dictionary to re-record the pronunciation for any word that you have already added. However, I think it would be beneficial for you to try the mouse grid again without a "3" in the dictionary to see what happens. Then add the word back with a new pronunciation to see if that helps.)

Regarding your problem with Microsoft newsgroups, it sounds as if you're using a particular program to read newsgroups. The macro code that you would use to simulate all four arrow key movements are:

<sendKeys>{RIGHT}</sendKeys>

<sendKeys>{LEFT}</sendKeys>

<sendKeys>{UP}</sendKeys>

<sendKeys>{DOWN}</sendKeys>

So a macro that simply sends the"right" key should open a selected folder in the program.

Speaking of newsgroups, you might want to check out the ms-speech Yahoo Group for more information about Windows Speech Recognition. It's located here:

 
-Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mmarkoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/Jun/2009 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by andy t

 
The reason your quotes are not being recognized is because you are using [QUOTE/] to end a quote instead of
. The forward slash must be before the word quote, not after.
 

No, you misunderstand, I never say “click” at all until I get it to the exact right spot I want, say it, if and the arrow clicks that spot.  So I may say for example “4”, “5”, “2”, “8”, “8” “click”, I always say “click” at the end, I never say “click 3” or click “5” because as soon as you say the word “click”, that triggers the arrow or cursor to go straight to the point you are on at the time.

I suspect  you may have a corrupted speech user profile.  This can be caused by move the word you have added/edited/corrected.  To see if this is what is causing problems with your mouse great performance, I suggest you quickly create a new user training profile with a name that different from the one you have been using.
 
To do this, right click the microphone icon on the Speech Bar.  Choose Configuration.  Then click on open Speech Recognition Control Panel.
 
 
Then click Advanced speech options in the upper left. Then click New and give the Speech Profile a name. Do a short training and see if the mouse grid performs better.
 
Marty
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Post Options Post Options   Quote russ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/Jun/2009 at 4:45pm
Marty, are there more details somewhere in another post about this corruption problem with removing added words? I had not heard about this before. Thanks.
-Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mmarkoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/Jun/2009 at 8:10pm
Russ,
 
I wrote:
"This can be caused by move the word you have added/edited/corrected.  To see if this is what is causing problems with your mouse great performance,"
 
Yikes, I must have been slurring words badly. It should have said, "This can be caused by words incorrectly added/edited/corrected. Mouse "great" should be mouse grid.
 
In other words, if you incorrectly correct a word or phrase it gets added to the dictionary.  Eventually, this will cause poorer accuracy.  In Dragon Naturally Speaking, you can go through the list of your custom words and remove the words that do not belong there.
 
Sorry for the confusion.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/Jun/2009 at 9:22am

The reason your quotes are not being recognized is because you are using [QUOTE/] to end a quote instead of
. The forward slash must Be before the word quote, not after.[/QUOTE]

 

Oops!  Thanking you for correcting me Marty, I made a right hash of that, didn’t I?

 

I Suspect  You May Have A Corrupted Speech User Profile.  This Can Be Caused By Move The Word You Have Added/Edited/Corrected.  To See If This Is What Is Causing Problems With Your Mouse Great Performance, I Suggest You Quickly Create A New User Training Profile With A Name That Different From The One You Have Been Using.

 

To Do This, Right Click The Microphone Icon On The Speech Bar.  Choose Configuration.  Then Click On Open Speech Recognition Control Panel.

 

Yep, you were absolutely right Marty.  I trained a completely new user profile under another name and it works perfectly now, even the dreaded “3” in the mouse grid.

 

What should I do with the old user profile?  Should I delete it or something?

 

What I have noticed is that the new user profile still works with the old macros from the old user profile, is that correct?  In other words, I did not have to transfer my macros to the new user profile.

 

Also, do I still need to go through all the procedure again of “Train From Text”? (And the rainbow passage again?) And also “add from file”?

 

My speech recognition seems to be working fine with the new user profile.

 

I have noticed one thing with the new user profile, the record back of my voice when I correct an incorrect spelling, is very low, could you just run that one by me again please and how I turn the sound up?

 

The other thing I have noticed with the new user profile now is, when I say “new paragraph” it only goes down one line and not two like it used to with my old user profile.  I noticed somewhere you have produced a macro somewhere in this website to correct this.  I will try that, because when I say “new line”, I only want the cursor to go down once, and when I say “new paragraph”, I want the cursor to go down twice.  This is what used to happen in my old user profile but not anymore.  There might be a way even to correct it within word 2007 on the “page layout” and “paragraph” section.

 

Russ,

Regarding Your Problem With Microsoft Newsgroups, It Sounds As If You’re Using A Particular Program To Read Newsgroups. The Macro Code That You Would Use To Simulate All Four Arrow Key Movements Are:

<Sendkeys>{Right}</Sendkeys>

<Sendkeys>{Left}</Sendkeys>

<Sendkeys>{Up}</Sendkeys>

<Sendkeys>{Down}</Sendkeys>

So A Macro That Simply Sends The”Right” Key Should Open A Selected Folder In The Program.

That worked a treat, works perfectly now for that function in Microsoft Newsgroups.

Thanks for the tip and the URL for the Yahoo Speech Groups.  I already have this address somewhere, but I believe you need to know a thing or two about making macros first before entering this domain, am I right?

There is one other thing I cannot fathom out Russ.  When I am in Microsoft newsgroups and I have highlighted the message I want to see, can you give me a macro that will open that message for me?

I must point out, because of my disability, I use “Double Click” not “Single Click”.  So to be clear, to open up the message I want to see, I would have to say “Double Click” in order to open it.

How would I incorporate that command with a macro?

Marty, just to let you know, I have now purchased the “Sennheiser ME3 Headset” from Graham.  I have not had a chance to use it yet, but will do in the very near future.  Graham has advised me to put the USB end into a completely different port to that of my Buddy DesktopMic.  Will that microphone automatically be picked up and I just choose that one if I want to change from the “Buddy DesktopMic”?

I also do not think it will be long now before I can scrape enough penny’s together to get the mother of all microphones, the Sennheiser MD431 ll and all the accessories I need that come with it.  I will be getting this from Graham also as I know he will be getting it from you in the long run.

Cheers for all the advice from both of you.

andy t

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mmarkoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/Jun/2009 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by andy t

Yep, you were absolutely right Marty.  I trained a completely new user profile under another name and it works perfectly now, even the dreaded “3” in the mouse grid.
Thank you for letting us know that worked.  I am not happy with the Windows Speech Recognition user profile on my home office WorkStation.  I'm going to try creating a new user profile to see if it improves the accuracy.
 
 
What should I do with the old user profile?  Should I delete it or something?
I have never deleted one, but I do not see why you cannot.
 
 

What I have noticed is that the new user profile still works with the old macros from the old user profile, is that correct?  In other words, I did not have to transfer my macros to the new user profile. Also, do I still need to go through all the procedure again of “Train From Text”? (And the rainbow passage again?) And also “add from file”?

 

My speech recognition seems to be working fine with the new user profile.

 
Do you know the old saying, "If it isn't broken, do not fix it."

 

I have noticed one thing with the new user profile, the record back of my voice when I correct an incorrect spelling, is very low, could you just run that one by me again please and how I turn the sound up?

 
You need to learn how to control your audio in the Vista operating system.  Right click the speaker icon in the lower right taskbar.  See if you can figure this out for yourself.
 
 
The other thing I have noticed with the new user profile now is, when I say “new paragraph” it only goes down one line and not two like it used to with my old user profile.  I noticed somewhere you have produced a macro somewhere in this website to correct this.  I will try that, because when I say “new line”, I only want the cursor to go down once, and when I say “new paragraph”, I want the cursor to go down twice.  This is what used to happen in my old user profile but not anymore.  There might be a way even to correct it within word 2007 on the “page layout” and “paragraph” section.
Just create the Next Paragraph command in your WSRToolkit.  We have been through this before.  I understand you are disabled.  However, and maybe a time somebody is not there to help you and you will need to try things on your own.  Hints, you want to create a command as in Command Macros (see WSRToolkit).  What do you want it to do?  I would think you wanted to hit the Enter key twice instead of once.  Because a new paragraph is taken, I call mine Next Paragraph. 
 
Marty


Edited by mmarkoe - 08/Jun/2009 at 12:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote russ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/Jun/2009 at 4:06pm
Marty, thanks for the clarification about corrupted profiles. I was afraid that simply adding and deleting words could cause corruption, and I'm glad to hear that it doesn't. I guess like Dragon NaturallySpeaking, it's not a good idea in WSR to make corrections when you have mispronounced a word or phrase.
 
Andy T, to open a selected newsgroup item, you can probably just say "press Enter." This technique should work in just about any program where you have an item selected and you want to open it: icons on the desktop or in Windows Explorer, a selected email message in your email program, and so on. Try it out in a number of places and see how it works for you.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/Jun/2009 at 4:47pm

Andy T, to open a selected newsgroup item, you can probably just say "press Enter." This technique should work in just about any program where you have an item selected and you want to open it: icons on the desktop or in Windows Explorer, a selected email message in your email program, and so on. Try it out in a number of places and see how it works for you.

 

Oh my God!  All this time I have been saying “Show Numbers” and selected the number I wanted to open an e-mail or any other item and it turns out that all I had to do was say the simple word “Enter”.  All this time, I did not know that!

 

Thank you very much Russ.

 

I believe I have a pretty comprehensive set of commands that I use but obviously someone like yourself has uses for macros for other types of commands to do all sorts of things within your operating system.

 

Can you give me some sort of idea what you use some of yours to do and how you set them out?

 

andy t

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/Jun/2009 at 4:17pm

Russ,

When I am in newsgroups or e-mails, normally you could right click any of the messages and a list of selections would be shown for you to choose.

What is the normal command you would say in speech recognition to make this happen?  Or if there is not one, could you show me the macro code to make this happen please?

I have tried saying "right click" when I am on the actual message or document, but this does not work.
 
Cheers
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote russ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/Jun/2009 at 7:53pm

Andy T,

To answer your previous question, my thought process for creating macros basically is along the lines of thinking up something I want to do, and then finding out if there is a keyboard shortcut (or set of shortcuts that execute one after another) that I can use to create a macro to do it. For example, in Microsoft Outlook, I'd like to be able to create a new message by saying " New Message." There's a keyboard shortcut for that (ctrl+n), so I create a macro to do that.

Right-clicking is a way of opening up a menu that's called the "context menu" because usually it provides a menu of choices that are particular to the context of what you're clicking on. There are about three ways that I can think of to right click with WSR:

* If you're using the mouse grid, at any time you can right click directly on what's underneath a number by saying "right-click number."

* If the mouse pointer is over something and you want to right click on it, you can say "right-click it" or "right-click that."

* To me, this last one is really useful at times. Whatever happens to be selected (whether it's an e-mail message, an icon, a paragraph in a document, or even if all you have is an insertion point inside of a word), you can say "context menu" to open the context menu for that selected item. I use this a lot to add words to the dictionary in Microsoft Word so that they don't have squiggly red lines underneath them anymore.

-Russ

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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/Jun/2009 at 9:40am

Russ,

“Context Menu”, thank you so much.  That was the magic word that triggers the right click menu.  I have been trying to say “right click” each time an e-mail or document is highlighted and this did not work. 

It just goes to show, if you know the right words to say, it makes things a lot easier.

Speaking on the subject “Microsoft Outlook”, I have 3 web based email accounts but I have not even setup my “Microsoft Outlook” yet.

What do you actually use Microsoft Outlook for?  Is there a different use for this program that has an advantage over the web based email clients?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mmarkoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/Jun/2009 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by andy t

“Context Menu”, thank you so much.  That was the magic word that triggers the right click menu.  I have been trying to say “right click” each time an e-mail or document is highlighted and this did not work. 

It just goes to show, if you know the right words to say, it makes things a lot easier.

My thanks to Russ as well. I never thought of saying, "Context menu."
 
Speaking on the subject “Microsoft Outlook”, I have 3 web based email accounts but I have not even setup my “Microsoft Outlook” yet.

What do you actually use Microsoft Outlook for?  Is there a different use for this program that has an advantage over the web based email clients?

A topic on WSR and Microsoft Outlook is useful. In the future, please start a new topic instead of continuing new thoughts on an topic that is not appropriate. This will help newcomers to the forum find information easier.
 
Thanks for all the input from you and Russ.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/Jun/2009 at 1:07pm

Marty,

Good point!  I will start a new thread regarding “Microsoft Outlook”, in the meantime, I have been looking at the keyboard shortcuts and trying to think what else I could use macros for to save time?

Have you got a lot of macros working for your Marty?  What do you make them do?

andy t
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