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bipolarbear View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16/Jan/2010 at 9:54am

Is there any way, perhaps a registry alteration, to get Windows speech recognition to function with nonstandard programs? For example dragon naturally speaking will basically type into most anything that the keyboard will. Unfortunately windows is a lot more fussy. Outside of that, it appears a less buggy program. Dragon works fine, when it works. Unfortunately it's got so many bugs that it's convinced me that there is in fact a devil, and this program is his work.

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Another problem I seem to be having, it'll work fine for quite awhile, and then suddenly ceases. It won't recognize anything said to it. It will only respond to press certain keys commands. Not a single word will get anything but it what is that response
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Originally posted by bipolarbear bipolarbear wrote:

Is there any way, perhaps a registry alteration, to get Windows speech recognition to function with nonstandard programs? For example dragon naturally speaking will basically type into most anything that the keyboard will. Unfortunately windows is a lot more fussy. Outside of that, it appears a less buggy program. Dragon works fine, when it works. Unfortunately it's got so many bugs that it's convinced me that there is in fact a devil, and this program is his work.

The first course of action if you are on Vista is to right click the microphone icon on the Speech Bar.  Select Options and then Enable dictaton everywhere. If this does not work you can use the Open Dictation Box macro which allows you to dictate to Wordpad and then transfer text to the place the cursor was when you opened the macro when you say Post Dictation. I tried posting the macro but our security is not allowing it due to the unique characters within the macro.
 
Windows 7 handles non standard programs better than WSR in Vista. If you still cannot dictate into a non standard program there is a built in macro similar to the Dictation Box. Enable it through Options (Enable dictation scratchpad) and say, "Open dictation scratchpad."
 
Your other problem of working and then not working usually has one of 3 causes:
  1. You have many programs open and resources become choked. Close some programs if possible. Check Task Manager Processes and Performance tabs the next time it occurs.
  2. You unknowingly lose focus on the window you are dictating into. Just try clicking back into the window and see if that cures the problem. This happens to me when working on one of my notebook computers when window focus is accidentally changed  by touching the Touchpad and the cursor is drawn to another window.
  3. Your audio can be changed automatically by Windows. This has occured due to a recent Windows update we suspect. We cannot track down the exact cause but many people have had recognition problems. See the thread in this forum, "Problem with move and home commands being issued."

Marty Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.

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I'm using windows seven. The scratchpad does come up, but whereas dragon will type directly into these programs, windows recognition requires this extra step.
Regarding the second problem, I have 4 GB of ram and a quad core processor at 3.0 GHz, so I don't think resources are the problem. I have noted that windows recognition has a memory leak. If you don't send the program to sleep immediately after finishing your dictation, resource use will continue to grow indefinitely. I've already seen it approaching 600,000.
I know it's not the audio being changed because recognition does realize some command is being sent, it just doesn't recognize anything. No matter what you say it responds with "what was that?" The solution thus far is shutting down the program you are dictating into. Basically the reverse problem with a dragon, where dragon itself needed to be closed periodically. I can live with that, as well as the dictation scratchpad. At least it doesn't go haywire with wildly inaccurate recognition results as often as dragon does. No shutdown errors, either. Thanks, Martin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmarkoe_admin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/Jan/2010 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by bipolarbear bipolarbear wrote:

I know it's not the audio being changed because recognition does realize some command is being sent, it just doesn't recognize anything. No matter what you say it responds with "what was that?"
When not dictating do you:
1. Use and On/mute switch on your microphone?
2. Put the microphone to Sleeping (Stop Listening)?
3. Turn the microphone Off in Dragon Bar?
 
Turning the microphone off there should be no growth in the sapisvr.exe process. Also, having a highly directional microphone (super cardiod pickup pattern/good background noise canceling) means less audio information enters the audio stream for WSR to process when you are not dictating.
 
Two questions:
1. What microphone are you using?
2. Which programs take dictation directly with Dragon but not with WSR?
 
I"m wondering if you are not a candidate for creating a new user profile and then deleting the old one.
 
Marty
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well, as I've just responded on another forum that you frequent (username: Dunsel), I have resolved the microphone issue with Dragon. Now, as to the symptoms with WRS:
 
Yes, my Sennheiser M.D. 431 has an on-off switch (it's a powered microphone), and I routinely shut it when not in use to conserve battery power. I also send WRS to sleep just before I shut the mic. This manages to control the resource growth fairly effectively, but it does still grow. It just slows it down markedly.
 
There are 2 programs which WRS seems to require the scratch pad for, at least if you intend to make any corrections using the program. One is a third-party instant messenger software called Trillian, and the other is my e-mail program; The Bat!
 
It types in my browser just fine, but after a while, a completely random and indeterminate amount of time, it will simply stop responding to any dictation command other than pressing keys directly (such as press *insert name here*). Every such attempt will receive "what was that?". The moment I close the program I am dictating into and reopen it, it will work again.


Edited by bipolarbear - 17/Jan/2010 at 4:38pm
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Originally posted by bipolarbear bipolarbear wrote:

Yes, my Sennheiser M.D. 431 has an on-off switch (it's a powered microphone), and I routinely shut it when not in use to conserve battery power.
I've never seen an MD431II with a battery????
 
Quote I also send WRS to sleep just before I shut the mic. This manages to control the resource growth fairly effectively, but it does still grow. It just slows it down markedly.
Try turning the WSR microphone OFF. You can hit the Ctrl+Windows key as an On/Off toggle.
 
Quote There are 2 programs which WRS seems to require the scratch pad for, at least if you intend to make any corrections using the program. One is a third-party instant messenger software called Trillian, and the other is my e-mail program; The Bat!
Sorry, not familiar with these. It is unusual that Dragon works in a software and WSR does not. Do you have another computer to try WSR and these programs on.
 
Quote It types in my browser just fine, but after a while, a completely random and indeterminate amount of time, it will simply stop responding to any dictation command other than pressing keys directly (such as press *insert name here*). Every such attempt will receive "what was that?". The moment I close the program I am dictating into and reopen it, it will work again.
Do you have this problem when dictating into standard programs like Outlook or Word?
 
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It's not the mark II, it's the original MD431. I have it about 16 yrs or so. Also runs off phantom power but I don't have a PS. I'm using it at your suggestion, and purchased the mic cable from your company. (we've spoken on the now defunct official Nuance forum, and by email). 
 
I've tried that, and it does delay the RAM usage growth even more. But it does still grow, just takes much longer
 
I do, but they're both running XP pro SP3. Not gonna help here.
 
I don't know. I never use those long enough to find out. They're not part of my regular computing life :D
 
It takes a while for this to occur (most of the time) so I'd need to use those programs for a good while to find out.


Edited by bipolarbear - 17/Jan/2010 at 10:53pm
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Originally posted by bipolarbear bipolarbear wrote:

I'm using windows seven. I have noted that windows recognition has a memory leak. If you don't send the program to sleep immediately after finishing your dictation, resource use will continue to grow indefinitely. I've already seen it approaching 600,000.
I was really curious about this. Starting about 12 hours ago on my Windows 7 notebook computer with 2 GB RAM I started monitoring memory usage for sapisvr.exe.
 
Initially, it was using approximately 76,000 kB. Just watching it for a few minutes with the microphone active but no noise, it hovered between 77,000 and 76,00 kB. I then put it into sleep mode and observe the exact same behavior. Next I turned off the microphone came back in a few minutes and was still around 76-77,000 kB.
 
Finally, I left it in sleep mode overnight and came back it was still at 76-77,000 kB. I would bet there's some other program on your computer that is causing the memory leak.
 
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Interesting. When I 1st open it, that process is using less than 30,000 kb. Occasionally as low as 17,000 upon 1st opening. Even with putting it to sleep and shutting the microphone immediately upon finishing dictation, it will still grow over 100,000 within an hour.
 
The only other non-system processes running are the aforementioned third-party instant messenger, browser and e-mail. The e-mail can be eliminated because I have seen the behavior without that program open. That leaves the browser and instant messenger. Going to be difficult to test without them as I rely upon them for work. But I'll give it a try this evening. Thanks Martin.
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Originally posted by bipolarbear bipolarbear wrote:

Interesting. When I 1st open it, that process is using less than 30,000 kb. Occasionally as low as 17,000 upon 1st opening. Even with putting it to sleep and shutting the microphone immediately upon finishing dictation, it will still grow over 100,000 within an hour.
 
The only other non-system processes running are the aforementioned third-party instant messenger, browser and e-mail. The e-mail can be eliminated because I have seen the behavior without that program open. That leaves the browser and instant messenger. Going to be difficult to test without them as I rely upon them for work. But I'll give it a try this evening. Thanks Martin.
Yes, likely the Browser or Instant Messenger. The other possibility, I am using 32 bit Windows 7. Are you using 64 bit?
 
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No, 32 bit windows seven ultimate. I almost went 64 but I was a little worried about backward compatibility issues.
Edit: it's been open now about 30 minutes and is already up to 108,000.

Edited by bipolarbear - 19/Jan/2010 at 12:11pm
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I don't think that's it. I just shut both programs and then opened WRS. Started out at 29,900 and change, and within 3 minutes grew to 32,000 and change, in a sleeping state. In a listening state it continued to grow, pausing every few seconds in its growth, then growing again. It's not the end of the world, it takes quite a while before it gets up to the resource use of dragon version 10. That's continually over 300,000, usually around 350,000.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bipolarbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/Jan/2010 at 9:04am
A little more information on the original issue I posted in this thread; if the scratchpad is unchecked/disabled, WR S will type directly into my third party instant messenger, however, you cannot make corrections using the program at all.
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Originally posted by bipolarbear bipolarbear wrote:

A little more information on the original issue I posted in this thread; if the scratchpad is unchecked/disabled, WR S will type directly into my third party instant messenger, however, you cannot make corrections using the program at all.
Are you able to make corrections using Scratchpad?
 
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Yes, with the scratchpad corrections function normally. You just have to say insert and enter after every thing you say.
Something else I've noticed, on this forum, new paragraph does not give you the start of a new paragraph. It functions the way new line should function. You'll note there is no space between the second and third sentences, yet I'd told it to start a new paragraph. Just odd little things. I'm currently switching back and forth between WRS and dragon. When one frustrates me to the point of exploding, I switch to the other.
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Originally posted by bipolarbear bipolarbear wrote:

Yes, with the scratchpad corrections function normally. You just have to say insert and enter after every thing you say.
Something else I've noticed, on this forum, new paragraph does not give you the start of a new paragraph. It functions the way new line should function. You'll note there is no space between the second and third sentences, yet I'd told it to start a new paragraph. Just odd little things. I'm currently switching back and forth between WRS and dragon. When one frustrates me to the point of exploding, I switch to the other.
Yes, I have the same issue. I simply used our WSRToolkit to create a command macro called, "Next Paragraph," that gives two carriage returns. The macro is below my name.
 
Marty
 
PS. I tried posting the macro as text but our security firewall does not allow use of certain programming symbols and would not allow the posting as text. Below is a screen shot of the macro.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Interesting. Most forum software would permit the posting of HTML/XML as text and just not parse it. From what I've seen thus far, I would say that each of the two dictation systems has advantages and flaws, and both are extremely finicky in their function. The technology is not exactly there yet, but getting there. Until my hands get better, if ever, this is what I'll have to use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bipolarbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/Jan/2010 at 11:38am
One very noteworthy and fascinating advantage that WR has over dragon, you can manually move the cursor with your mouse, even take focus away from the text area or even the window itself, and when you return, WR can still select any word in the document, whereas dragon completely loses its bearings with the slightest provocation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bipolarbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/Jan/2010 at 1:41pm
I'm curious this time to see just how high it'll go. Everything is still working, and I've had it running since this morning, without interruption. It's currently around 530,000 kilobits of memory. Unbelievable. I'm just wondering if at some point when ram runs out, if it will release some or just stop growing or will the computer grind to a halt?.
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It was getting very close to 700,000 when I finally shut it down. Computer was getting a little sluggish, compared to usual.
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Originally posted by bipolarbear bipolarbear wrote:

It was getting very close to 700,000 when I finally shut it down. Computer was getting a little sluggish, compared to usual.
It sure sounds if you have a memory leak. Why don't you just turn the microphone off on the Speech Bar?
 
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I do, but all that does is slow it down. I had it open from early morning until I made that post. It took that long for it to grow to that level, using it intermittently during the day, and immediately shutting the moment I finish dictation.
I figured something else out also. It's not how long the programs I dictate into are open, regarding the other problem I mentioned, where it stops recognizing anything. It's about not having them all open for a long time prior to starting the speech recognition. It worked all day long today, so long as I don't shut WSR and then reopen. If I do that without doing the same with the programs I dictate into, if won't recognize a single thing regarding dictation. Other commands will still function.
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Originally posted by bipolarbear bipolarbear wrote:

I figured something else out also. It's not how long the programs I dictate into are open, regarding the other problem I mentioned, where it stops recognizing anything. It's about not having them all open for a long time prior to starting the speech recognition. It worked all day long today, so long as I don't shut WSR and then reopen. If I do that without doing the same with the programs I dictate into, if won't recognize a single thing regarding dictation. Other commands will still function.
It sounds as if you have hit the nail on the head. I generally have only one or two programs that I dictate into open at the time. It sounds like you have many open at the same time and it is as if the speech engine is working in all of them independently. Try only having one program open at a time to see if this is the case?
 
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Well unfortunately it's necessary for work. There's only three programs open in addition to WSR; my browser, my e-mail, and im program. But it worked fine all day today (except for the memory leak) until I shut WSR and reopened it. The moment I did that, I had to close and reopen the three aforementioned programs as well. When I do that, all is right again. For some reason it just doesn't like it when the programs are open a long time before WSR. How long exactly, I don't know. I haven't tested that explicitly yet.
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